20 Year Anniversary of the Travel in 10 Podcast with guest Chris Christensen

Speaker A: 00:00:40

Foreign.

Speaker B: 00:00:49

Travel In ten is now one of the world top travel podcasts, and I've been pleased to join as a host in the last couple years. But David Brodie, he's the pioneer, he started it 20 years ago when podcasting was absolutely in its infancy.

David, tell us a little bit more about starting this podcast.

Speaker C: 00:01:09

Well, it's hard to believe, Tim, that as we come up to this month, and it has been 20 years since I uploaded our first episode of the Travel In ten podcast.

And when I did it initially, it was, you know, my wife and I were spending a year living and working in Southeast Asia and Japan and traveling around Japan a little bit, and barely anyone knew what podcasts were at that point. I think my podcast was, as far as I could tell, the second travel podcast on the Apple Podcast Store. So very, very, very early on.

But it, it has changed dramatically since then, bringing you on as a co host in the last two years.

And I know having you, I think we, as a guest even before that on the show has just changed it dramatically in terms of being able to produce great content and, and get it out weekly and having your depth of expertise now with the, what is it, 140 plus countries that you've been to around the world?

Speaker B: 00:02:01

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I always say about 151 countries, so all seven continents, all 50 states, all the provinces and territories in Canada. So it's been really been a pleasure to share that experience on this podcast.

Speaker C: 00:02:17

Well, and what's also been great about it in just this last year is me and you being able to leverage what we've done with travel in 10 podcast to now start a podcast network and working together with you to get Voyascape kicked off, where we now have really, I think, some of the best travel podcasts in the world who we've aggregated together and brought together on a great podcast network, work that we've started up. And it's just provided us a great opportunity to both of us to do some amazing travel around the world.

And the best part is it gives me a chance to talk to you in different parts of the world every week and talk to you about one of the things both of us love the most, which is travel and giving people some of our advice on how to travel more and how to travel better.

Speaker A: 00:03:00

Absolutely. No.

Speaker B: 00:03:01

And it's always a pleasure to chat with you, David. So, yeah, I know we've been in different places, different locations, and the travel that we talk about, we've been practicing.

So always a pleasure to chat.

Speaker C: 00:03:15

Well, and we're Going to do something a little different today to celebrate, sort of clicking over into the 20 years of podcasting. I'm going to bring you on a bit of a guest today, somebody who I have known really since the beginning of podcasting, Chris Christensen.

Chris does a podcast called the Amateur Traveler, and I think I mentioned I was the, as far as I could tell, second podcast travel podcast on the Apple Podcast Store. Chris started with the first the Amateur Traveler. And unlike me, you know, I've been a bit more erratic in my podcasting over the 20 years.

He has kept it up consistently every single week. He is now well over a thousand episodes, tens of millions of people who have listened to his show.

And I've had a chance to work with Chris on a number of podcasts and a number of projects.

So sitting down with him a little bit today to talk a little bit about how podcasting has changed over the last 20 years since we both kicked off our travel podcast.

Speaker B: 00:04:14

Can't wait to hear what he has To say.

Speaker C: 00:04:20

As we kick off this 20th years of the Travel In ten podcast to take a bit of a look back today.

And nobody that I could think of would be better to do that than Chris Christensen, one of the few people in the world who I know who has been doing this as long as I have and has been doing it far more consistently than I have as well.

Speaker A: 00:04:42

At least at first. At least for the first 18 years.

Speaker C: 00:04:45

n doing travel podcasts since: 2005

Curious, looking back, like, what was that like when you first started, what inspired you to start the Amateur Traveler?

Speaker A: 00:05:02

podcasts in two, I think, in: 2004

And I started listening around December, January, because there was a tech show that I was listening to, or watching rather on tv, was call for Help and it got canceled and they said, well, we're going to make a podcast instead. And. And that was my what the hell is a podcast? Moment, was when that show said that they were switching to this audio format.

And so I started listening to that, sort of listening to Adam Christiansen, my brother from another mother who was doing the Mac cast and other shows at that time and said, you know, I, I should do my own podcast and thought about doing a tech show. But Adam was already doing the Mac cast and how many, how Many Mac shows do we need?

Of course it's silly because, you know, then, now many, many shows in any particular genre. And then thought about doing a religious show, which I actually did start a year later, which I still do as well.

But then we had some friends over for, for Memorial Day and all the best stories were travel stories.

And so I said I'm going to do a show about my travel stories, which was a really stupid idea because I, I had a full time job and you know, basically I was gener. I was traveling four weeks a year and podcasting 48 weeks a year. And, and that math does not work.

So if I had stayed with that format, I'm sure it would have stopped 20 years ago. But it very quickly became an interview show.

Within the first, say six months or so I started interviewing friends and my circle of friends has just grown since then. And I found I really enjoyed hearing about places I hadn't been to or reminiscing with people about places I had.

So that, and of course, you know, I thought I was well traveled when I started the show because compared to the people I knew, I had been to maybe a dozen countries.

Speaker C: 00:07:00

Sure.

Speaker A: 00:07:00

And of course now I don't know about you, but I know at least two people who've been to every country and in the travel blogging, travel podcasting, travel writer space, you know, I've been to what, 76. That's, that's not pretty good.

Speaker C: 00:07:14

That's pretty good.

Speaker A: 00:07:15

That's pretty good. But it's not bragging rights within that community of people.

Speaker C: 00:07:20

Do you remember? I'm thinking back to it like I. What I can remember of starting a podcast at that point. The technical sides of it were a lot harder then.

I mean it was quite.

Speaker A: 00:07:29

Oh, I was hand editing RSS feeds.

Speaker C: 00:07:31

Yeah, you had to be a bit of a geek for sure to figure it all out. I was recording on, you know, I was living in Japan at the time when podcasting was kind of first coming out.

And so I managed to get, you know, Japan always is a little ahead when it comes to technology. They had these little I river recorders that were very small MP3 players that you could also record on. So it was kind of ideal for podcasting.

You could even still probably use that today and it would be quite good. But I'm curious what you used to record when you first started.

Speaker A: 00:07:58

So I had an iriver, but I was recording on my laptop. I had some Logitech collapsible travel headphones with a, with a microphone, boom microphone that I was recording with.

And a boom microphone is not a bad thing to start with because you don't have to worry about where your head is going, you know, as you're, as you're fidgeting around. Then you don't have to worry about that. But they, they kind of creaked as you wore them because they were, they were collapsible. They did fold up.

And then I switched to a yeti microphone pretty pretty soon thereafter within the first year, I think at some point. And use that for years. Over a decade, maybe 15 years. Two different Yeti microphones before I moved. I'm now on a sure microphone with a boom arm.

But, you know, that's a relatively new addition.

Speaker C: 00:08:46

And it was, I mean, your shows to begin with, probably. Would you say it was more other people's travels versus yours? I think probably in that first, first few seasons.

Speaker A: 00:08:55

Not just the first few seasons, I would say until. Well, it still is, it's still. Most of the episodes are still interview shows. Some of them are places that I've been as well. So I'm contributing.

But we've talked about places I will never get to. We've talked about places I didn't know were countries. You know, you said Comoros and I had to look it up on a map. I did not know where that was. So.

And you know, at this point we've done 900 and I think I've recorded 934 show, 964 shows or so. So, you know, I joke now at this point, if we don't have an episode on it, you probably don't need to go there.

Speaker C: 00:09:29

That's right.

Speaker A: 00:09:30

d from the day job in June of: 2024

Speaker C: 00:09:43

And. And has it been weekly that whole time?

Speaker A: 00:09:47

Yeah. So when I started, I decided that I wanted to do a weekly show, but I would give myself four weeks off a year. Okay.

And when I hit 20 years, I averaged 47 and a half episodes a year or something like that. So not, not quite the 48 that I was targeting for.

But, you know, considering that I had full time jobs, often in startup companies and was doing, you know, two active podcasts, two active blogs and things like that on the side, plus, you know, getting married, raising kids and putting him through college and doing some volunteer work, I felt pretty good about that. Very consistent.

Speaker C: 00:10:28

It is remarkable. And I find the bank of content that you've got now. I mean, I certainly tap into it when I'm planning trips around the world. I often.

When I'm getting on a plane somewhere and or starting to think about planning, I seldom do not find an episode that you've got from that destination around the world.

Speaker A: 00:10:45

I get that a lot, especially actually from people in our community who, you know, who are aware of the show or have been on the show before. It's fun to hear them say the same thing. And I do that myself. I honestly will download the show before I go someplace.

And I remember listening to shows about Oaxaca, walking through the streets of Oaxaca, going, oh, that's what we were talking about, because I hadn't been there at the time we'd recorded the original show. It's also formed where I have decided to go as well, which is obviously one of the reasons I do the show well.

Speaker C: 00:11:14

And I think one of the things that's quite unique about podcasting and maybe even more so, or I don't know if it's more so, but within the travel podcasting community is it's always been very collaborative, I think.

I think the first time me and you ran into each other, first time I can remember meeting you at least, was in Las Vegas at a very early podcasting conference. And I think they had maybe.

I don't remember if there was a tbex, like a travel blogger conference associated with it, if it was one of the very early ones as well.

Speaker A: 00:11:43

So there was no TBEX in Vegas, but Rick, who owns tbex, was running Blog World or nmx, and he did.

Speaker C: 00:11:52

Like a travel meetup or something, maybe.

Speaker A: 00:11:54

Or they had a track for travel in Blog World, at least in one of the conferences. So we're. I thought we met before that, though.

think of when blog world was: 2007

Speaker C: 00:12:23

I think so. I'm pretty sure that was it. Although I think we had definitely corresponded before that.

You know, that we were both kind of eking out trying to figure out what a travel podcast even was. And, you know, I think had both reached out to each other a few times by email with different thoughts, suggestions, or.

Speaker A: 00:12:41

Well, I know you were on my show first talking about Cambodia.

Speaker C: 00:12:46

Oh, there you go. And I know I've been on a few times. I know I'VE done Fiji, I've done Cambodia, done a few, I think Vancouver maybe once as well.

You've always been super supportive and helpful of the show and been lucky enough to, well, thank have you on a few times as well.

Speaker A: 00:13:00

I try. I try. Yeah. No, it has been a fairly collaborative environment and still is.

I was you, you have Pauline Fromer in your, your network and I was just on her show on Wednesdays. So it still continues to be, I think, a fairly collaborative environment.

Speaker C: 00:13:16

And we have now Both, now after 20 years of doing this, we have both transitioned to this being, you know, kind of what we are doing full time.

Speaker A: 00:13:25

The difference is, I quote, unquote, retired to mine.

Speaker C: 00:13:28

That's right.

Speaker A: 00:13:30

After 43 years in high tech. It was slightly early retirement, but I was actually, what is it, 63 years old when I quit the day job.

So as I say, early retirement, but not by much.

Speaker C: 00:13:46

There you go where I am more making a new day job now.

Now bringing together many travel podcasters together in a podcast network, which has been a really interesting thing to do over, over the last year or so. And we've been lucky to work with you on some projects through our network and stuff as well, too, to work on more. Absolutely.

Speaker A: 00:14:04

Yeah. No, when I say retired, you know, I'm working seven days a week.

Speaker C: 00:14:07

But yeah, I was going to say you're, you're the busiest retires in quotes.

Speaker A: 00:14:10

When I say it. I'm doing what I want to do.

Speaker C: 00:14:13

So now what do you think? Another 10 years, another 20 years? Are you still going to be doing this?

Speaker A: 00:14:17

10? Sure. 20, 20. I would be 84. So we'll have to see how the health holds up.

I just did a hiking trip for the first time this year in a Grand Canyon rafting trip and just got back from Germany doing a biking trip. So I'm trying to work my way into a little better shape so that I can still be doing this in 20 years. But we shall see.

Speaker C: 00:14:44

Well, it has been, it has been really inspirational to see what you have done over the last 20 years with your show, Chris. Now you, you've been named to the podcast hall of fame.

Speaker A: 00:14:54

You have had and in other news, there's a podcast hall of fame.

Speaker C: 00:14:58

Yeah, well, that's right. And, and I think the coolest part about it with both of our shows, I mean, much more so with yours than mine.

But we've both been lucky enough to have literally millions of people from around the world listen to our suggestions on, you know, where to find the best sushi at 3am in the morning in Tokyo or where to find whatever it may be about helping them, helping them travel and explore more. And I don't think there's anything more, more exciting than that to be able to help inspire people to travel more.

Speaker A: 00:15:30

Well, you know, I would say that I don't know if being in the podcast hall of fame is the strangest thing that has happened to me since I started the show, but it's probably in the top five, so. But, you know, that includes getting invited to the White House.

Speaker C: 00:15:44

Well, that's pretty cool.

Speaker A: 00:15:46

Getting named as Travel and Leisure is the best independent travel journalist. That was pretty cool.

And finding out that they were asking permission to use the Amateur Traveler to teach English as a second language at Oxford University in the Canadian and German school system. And probably the weirdest thing, probably the weirdest thing is if you go to get a job, at least at one time, this was a few years back.

I haven't heard from them recently.

If you went to get a job at the Thailand Foreign Ministry, you'd be required to listen to two episodes of the Amateur Traveler as part of their English proficiency exam.

Speaker C: 00:16:20

Very cool.

Speaker A: 00:16:21

So it's been a bizarre ride. And that's not counting, obviously the trips that have had a chance to be paparazzi for the Pope for the day in Jordan.

It has been an amazing journey that I would not have predicted 20 years ago.

Speaker C: 00:16:37

It's strange that English is a second language piece. I've. I've had that a few times as well where people have asked to use podcast episodes as part of that.

It's for some reason travel podcasts seem to be a popular choice for that. So that's interesting.

Speaker A: 00:16:51

Oddly enough, for the Thailand Foreign Ministry, you're going to have to listen to an episode on Yorkshire in England and narrow boating in England and Wales. I don't know why not, not even a Thailand show or so, even though we've got those. But yeah, it's been a. It's been an interesting experience.

You know, the few times that I've flown in an airline and seen Amateur Traveler on the Seatback entertainment system, it's just, it's just weird. It is.

Speaker C: 00:17:18

And I don't know if you, you, I'm sure you have this experience lots, too.

I've started to have it more recently where you run into people out randomly in the world who have, who have listened to your shows and listened to your podcast. I just said one last night, actually, who was talking about listening to my episode on Berlin and on London and how that it helped inform their trip.

And I find that hugely inspiring when you know that you have got somebody to maybe push out of their comfort zone and go somewhere they weren't thinking about or to inspire them to travel more or. Yeah, just to get out and explore the world.

Speaker A: 00:17:55

I hear those stories, but in the real world, not as often.

Maybe every three years, ran into somebody randomly who, you know, I was in Key Largo, and I realized the couple behind me was staring at my T shirt and I was wearing an amateur traveler tour T shirt. Because we've been doing.

h listeners of the show since: 2010

Can I help you? And they said, oh, sorry, we're just trying to figure out on the back of the tour of the shirt is where we went.

They said, well, we knew New Delhi, we knew Varanasi, knew Agra, but we were trying to figure out what Tardigar was. I. So it's a. It's a small town. That's probably why you didn't know it. You know, and then it's that point. You're like, should I give them more content?

I've answered their question. Should I keep talking or not? And you go, well, I do. I do a travel podcast, and this is a tour T shirt from a trip that we did in India.

And they went, you're the amateur travel. We just listened to your episode on the Keys. So it does happen, but it doesn't happen that often.

I think, you know, all the times I'm walking through airports these days, I think, if only these people knew about the show. I feel like somewhere in here is my audience, but, you know, I'm largely, completely anonymous. I'd say, well, with.

Speaker C: 00:19:25

What is it now? You've got well in excess of how many. How many tens of millions of downloads now.

Speaker A: 00:19:31

So I. I do about 1 and 1.78 million downloads last year. I've had years before COVID that were above 2 million. So I don't know. It's. It's more than 20, less than 40 million downloads somewhere in that range.

Speaker C: 00:19:47

I just. I always find it incredible when I look back at those numbers, thinking of the number of people out there who have listened to some of that.

Speaker A: 00:19:54

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: 00:19:55

Hopefully inspired some of their travels.

Speaker A: 00:19:56

I remember doing it for, you know, half a year, three quarters of a year, and getting 200 downloads per episode and being, you know, pretty excited.

Speaker C: 00:20:04

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: 00:20:05

Absolutely. It was a smaller space back then, too, obviously. Yeah.

Speaker C: 00:20:10

Any, any favorite episodes in your, in your 20 years of doing them?

Speaker A: 00:20:13

Well, some of the ones that I've done recently, I've really enjoyed some of my, my personal travels. But I think some of the greatest hits for me, the ones that I quote most often that I reference are, I think of two. One is the best pitch I ever got.

An attorney named Chris from Atlanta, Georgia, said, I was just in Tonga swimming with whales and I brought along a hydrophone and recorded whale song. Would that be of any interest to you? And that was the first time he came on the show. That was his pitch, basically.

And he came on the show at least half a dozen times talking about, you know, going to photograph the wild horses in Mongolia or going to see the mountain gorillas in Rwanda.

So, you know, he still has done things that I have not done and was a wonderful, well spoken guest, not at all a travel writer, but was always very interesting to listen to and his photos were amazing. And of course, this was back in the days that I was still doing chapters in Amateur Traveler with photos, which I stopped relatively recently.

But that was one.

And the other one I think of is I talked to a couple, Andrew and Friedel Grant from Canada, and they were biking across the world and they were telling about biking through Iran and just the hospitality that they ran into. And they told two stories that were so memorable.

One was they stopped at a phone booth to, to call the embassies of the stands, the Central Asian countries, to get their talk about getting visas. And somebody stopped and said, because apparently the phones were very unreliable at this point, this is probably 15 years ago.

And so they said, can I help you? I've got a cell phone here. And. And then somebody else stopped and somebody else stopped and somebody else stopped and somebody else.

They had five different people.

They sent me a photo on five different cell phones, calling five different embassies on their behalf just to help out, who just saw the strangers there and thought, you know, they're going to have a problem with that. Let me see what I can do.

And they had one person as they were biking up a hill at one point, a long hill, they said they were biking up the hill for about an hour and somebody rode really slowly past them, you know, or behind them in his car for an hour to make sure they got to the top of the hill when they got to the top of the hill. He honked and waved and went on his way, but he just, he just wanted to make sure they were okay.

And, you know, I just think about some of the countries that we think of not positively, and how the people there are, you know, might be some of the most hospitable people in the world. And I think that's one of the things that I. One of the reasons I like the travel experience. Right. Is it is very normalizing.

You learn that people are people.

Speaker C: 00:23:06

I could not agree with you more. And yeah, if there is one thing I've taken away from my travels around the world, it would be exactly that and the perception versus reality.

When you get to some of these corners of the world that, you know, you hear about the news and you think, you worry sometimes going in, is this going to be a tough place to travel around? What's the experience going to be like? Without exception, whether that's the Middle East, Cambodia, Africa.

The first time I was in any of those, there was some trepidation going in because of the perception what you see and in every case the hospitality of the people. The experience was so different than my perception going in.

And I hope through, through our podcast we get to share just a bit of that and help correct some of that perception because just how. How friendly and welcoming people are in virtually every corner of the world.

Speaker A: 00:23:57

Yeah. And that doesn't mean there are not governments of whom I am not a fan, which would include my own right now.

But so, you know, and the trip that I did with amateur traveler listeners to Cuba did not teach me to be a Marxist, but I still enjoyed meeting the Cuban people, but did. Was not. Didn't love the situation of the country right now.

And so you'll, you'll run to those things where you see things that are broken and don't need to be broken. You know, visiting Zimbabwe with, you know, 90% unemployment that was largely ruined by the government in ineptitude and corruption.

In that you'll run into that. But still the people and just.

Speaker C: 00:24:35

And just being able to see some of those places and, and what people are experiencing in those parts of the world firsthand, it does give you such a different perspective and point of view, for sure.

Speaker A: 00:24:45

Yeah, I remember being in.

So I did some of my first kind of third world travel, if you will, in just in Tijuana, just down on the border, doing volunteer trips, going down there to build houses with a local community organization. And it was interesting because later on I was in Tanzania for the first time. Probably 15 years ago or so.

And we went to, you know, out to one of the marketplaces and I'm looking around, I'm going, oh, I, I know this place. I understand this place. It's, it's just like Tijuana. It's so you can you see it with different eyes. You don't just see, wow, what a small shop.

You see, oh look, he's added onto his shop, he's doing good. And wow, they've got the, they've got the satellite dish now and oh, look, they've got power this time.

And so you see the progress where, you know, the first time through, you just see what they don't have, you know, and, and it's interesting how your environment, how you're. For me, my comfort zone has stretched here in travel just in the last 20 years, even while I've been doing this show.

Speaker C: 00:25:51

Well, it's interesting you talk about that too. Going back to a place that's one of the things I've started doing some shows on recently is some of those like iconic cities around the world.

Your second visit to the city and what to do on a second visit because everybody, everybody thinks about that first time and you know, all the bucket list things you need to do. But it is on that second trip where you get a whole different experience where you get to really understand a lot more of what local life is like.

And you don't have to see the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre this time. You can actually go figure out where Parisians hang out and what they do. And yeah, those second trips are.

There is something very special about them for sure.

Speaker A: 00:26:27

Well, I enjoy doing shows too.

On the second trip to the country where you're not going to Paris, maybe you're going to Leon or maybe you're going, you know, cruising down the Canal de Midi or, or going to Normandy, which is a, you know, I think a very typical first or second trip or just all of those places that you don't know. For instance, I just in Germany and I've been, I don't know how many trips I've done in Germany. Eight or some, somewhere in that range.

But I had not been down to Lake Constance. I really hadn't heard about Lake Constance. I owned three UNESCO sites, two within the same with it, you know, one per day there for a while.

Saw amazing things, beautiful place, medieval villages. And it just wasn't on my radar at all. Didn't know about it. So I love going.

Yeah, I would say discovering but you know, being invited to in this case, explore some places like that. So it's just pretty cool.

Speaker C: 00:27:21

Now doing the podcast for 20 years now being to 70 plus countries, is your, your love for travel, your desire to travel more waning at all?

Speaker A: 00:27:31

No, no.

You know, towards the end of the trip, yes, but towards the, towards the last day of the trip, I'm one of those people who's, you know, back early to the airport, ready to go home. But then, you know, after I'm home for a couple, two, three weeks, I'm also ready to hit the road again.

So it just, it's interesting just trying to find the right cadence for travel because my wife is still working full time, I'd like to stay married. We've been married for 43 years and so far she's putting up with me.

So trying to find the right cadence that also lets you get the work done and get the shows out and only take off the four episodes a year, which is still my goal.

And it's kind of tough because you're trying to picture, well, how will I feel in November when I get back at the end of that China trip, Do I want to go through South Korea or will I be tired of traveling by the time I'm hitting that? And I'm still trying to decide that for the, the trip I'm doing to China is like, wow, there's really cheap, cheap flights through Incheon.

You know, should I, should I stay in Incheon for a couple days? And because I haven't been to South Korea, other, you know, other than airports, which I don't count.

But so, so, so no, so far, not tired of travel at all, but, you know, just trying to find the right cadence.

Speaker C: 00:28:50

Yeah, I would say exactly the same.

I mean, definitely, definitely my love of travel hasn't waned at all, but the way I travel has probably evolved a little bit over, over the last 20 years.

Although largely I, I mean, I think we both probably have a similar travel style in that I will find, you know, very much like you just referenced, right.

If, if I'm flying through to one part of the world and I see I've got a, there's a potential I can get the direct flight or there's potential I can get a layover that may be 24 hours and will let me get out of the airport and see something, I'm taking the layover at 99%, 99% of the cases.

Speaker A: 00:29:24

Not necessarily these years because there's still the getting back home and seeing my wife, but my wife's definitely finding that she is changing. So she's like, we're going down on a trip with Australis cruising down in Patagonia here in November around our anniversary.

But she does not want to do the overnight flight anymore if she can avoid it. And so we're, we will spend an extra night in Lima.

An extra, as long as we're there, we'll spend a day in Lima and actually see the city this time because she just doesn't want to do that. You know, there's no need to do a red eye.

She's got enough time off that she can take that extra day and you know, will pay for the hotel even though it's, the rest of the trip is sponsored and that's just how she wants to travel anymore. You know, when that flight, those like two night flights in a row to get to Africa, I think that was kind of the, the breaking point for her.

It's like I am never doing that again. I'm going to spend the night in London and then get on another flight or something like that. Yeah.

Speaker C: 00:30:28

My wife has had some health challenges in the last couple years that have made long haul flight stuff a little bit more challenging for her.

But one of the things I find that has enabled us to do as much travel, both me and her together and us as a family together, we're really fortunate that similar, very, very similar travel styles where both of us want to squeeze every moment out of a trip that we can like.

There are people who love to go to a, you know, we've got, we've got friends who will go to the same place in Mexico and have a great beach vacation where they lie on the beach for two weeks every year.

They love that we would happily go with them, but they would probably see us for about two hours during that trip because that's about as much time as we, any of us or a family would spend on the beach. And every other moment would be.

Speaker A: 00:31:12

We're, we're very similar.

Speaker C: 00:31:13

Every museum, cenote, local village, still love the beach.

But we are, we are way more recharged by the exploration and the discovering of new things than the, than the sitting back and having as many frothy drinks as you can at the all inclusive resort for sure.

Speaker A: 00:31:32

Well, we have friends who, you know, one, they're, they're not even doing the Mexican beach, they're doing the Jersey shore and staying in the same house every year.

But then we also had another couple that their perfect vacation was a cruise to Hawaii because you have like two or three days on a ship and he could just sit and read a book. And then they get to Hawaii and they run around like crazy for a week, which is what she wants to do.

And then they cruise back and he's got his two or three days on the ship. So it's a little more challenging if you don't have the same travel styles to try and come up with a good compromise that works well.

Speaker C: 00:32:10

I think we're both fortunate, too, in that we both live in cities.

I mean, you in the Bay Area there and me in Vancouver, that a lot of people from around the world travel, too, and are great travel destinations in and of themselves. So coming home is never so hard either. And I think for some who loves travel, living, living in a city like San Francisco or Vancouver is. Does.

Does make it a lot easier, for sure.

Speaker A: 00:32:32

Technically, I live in San Jose, so we're a little. Little more spread out, a little more elbow room, a lot easier to park. So I like visiting San Francisco, but I don't like.

I'm driving up there tonight for a California visit California event. And I don't love driving in the.

Speaker C: 00:32:47

City, but we got to think coming home, you got. You've got great restaurants, you've got great. There's a lot to see and do there, too.

Speaker A: 00:32:53

It is, it is. Well. And that's why one of my three blogs is a California blog. So.

And we're working our way through some of the local vineyards right now of in our own county because we got a. We got a vineyard pass, you know, $90 for a whole year. You can get a free tasting at a bunch of things.

We won't even get all of the maximum use out of because we started a little late. But it's kind of fun exploring your own backyard as a traveler sometimes.

Speaker C: 00:33:17

Absolutely.

Well, it has been great, Chris, to see over the last 20 years all that you have accomplished with your show, and you've been super supportive of our show and it's been great to be able to have you on as a guest and collaborate together with you.

We've, particularly in this last year and a half or so, got to work together on a lot of projects and looking forward to many more and lots more travel over the next 20 years.

Speaker A: 00:33:41

Likewise. Thanks, Russell.

Speaker C: 00:33:49

Well, a huge thank you to both Chris Christensen and Tim for joining me on today's show, and thank you to all of you who have joined us over the last 20 years of the Travel in 10 podcast.

I've got lots more great content coming to you with destinations around the world and just incredibly grateful for all the people who have tuned in and listened to our recommendations on how to travel more and how to travel better around the world and tuning into all of our podcasts now on the Voy Escape Podcast Network. To close out today's episode, I'm going to leave you with a song from a great artist out of my home province, Alberta, Canada.

Grace Forester with her rendition of Leaving on a Jet Plane and check her out on Instagram as well. Raceforrester Music.

Speaker D: 00:34:42

All my bags is packed ready to go Standing here outside your door I had to wake you up to say goodbye but the dawn is breaking it's early morning taxi sleeping is blowing his horn on Betty I'm so long to my good D so kiss me smile for me Tell me that you wait for me hold me like you're never cuz I'm leaving heart play the Know when I'll be back again oh baby to come there's so many times when I so many times played around her Tell you now that they don't mean a thing Every place circle think of you Every song I sing sing for you and I come back Open your so kiss me smile for me Tell me that you wait for me hold me like your lover let me go you play don't know when I'll be back again Hoping to come now the time has come to leave you one more time Just let me kiss you Close your eyes I'll be on my way Dream about the days to come when I have to leave all night about the times that I won't have to sleep so kiss me smile for me Tell me that you wait for me hold me like you'll never let me go Try leaving on your plane don't know when I'll be back again oh wait barely to go turn leaving heart play don't know when I'll be back again Open.